Somewhat off-Topic (Welding)

Oldman

Oldman

Well-Known Member
Was reading the C.T.C. flyer this week and saw a "Welder/Inverter" on sale for $279.00!!! $220.00 off. The picture showed a small power source with a GTAW torch attached. I figured it had to be a typo but I went to the store to have a look-see anyway.The package included a full size WP-17 torch with 3 sets of collet bodies and collets & 12 ft. whip.:rolleyes: I bought it and explained to the dept. manager, who knew NOTHING about welding, that I would return it if it turned out to be just a toy. I brought it to the College, hooked it up to a bottle of Argon and to my surprise, this little thing welds really nice! I tried it on 16 Ga. mild steel and Stainless, and I figured OK, that's all it will do. Turned up the amperage to 80 amps and was able to do a full penetration butt weld on 1/8" plate in one pass! The power source is capable of 100 amps with a 30% duty cycle at 80 amps. plugs into a 115 volt/20 amp outlet. I didn't have the right plug at school so I jury-rigged it to a 15 amp circuit and didn't blow a breaker. I think an experienced person could weld 3/16" plate with it. All that for $316.00 taxes in, WOW!
It will never replace my Square Wave but for an occasional use machine, I think it's a great buy!
Mike
 
I see that you are enjoying your new purchase, and with a sense of surprise to boot. I have played with some budget priced tools in the past, including welders and have come to a conclusion. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR :eek:. I don't mean to burst your bubble, and perhaps I may have become some sort of a tool snob, but I come to this reasoning by experience. I would NEVER weld a chassis with a 120 volt welder...NEVER!!! I don't believe that you will get the proper penetration. I am open for correction on this matter, and will listen to others input as well. My father in law has the same unit, and works fine for small jobs, I'm just sayin' there's a reason why I paid $800.00 for my Miller 180, instead of a weekly special at a box store. Cheers
 
Rodder29 said:
I see that you are enjoying your new purchase, and with a sense of surprise to boot. I have played with some budget priced tools in the past, including welders and have come to a conclusion. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR :eek:. I don't mean to burst your bubble, and perhaps I may have become some sort of a tool snob, but I come to this reasoning by experience. I would NEVER weld a chassis with a 120 volt welder...NEVER!!! I don't believe that you will get the proper penetration. I am open for correction on this matter, and will listen to others input as well. My father in law has the same unit, and works fine for small jobs, I'm just sayin' there's a reason why I paid $800.00 for my Miller 180, instead of a weekly special at a box store. Cheers
Click to expand...
Rodder,
I'm a licenced journeyman welder with over 45 years in the trade. My main GTAW power source is a Lincoln 175 Square wave. I have a Lincoln 180 GMAW machine as well. GTAW & GMAW are two different animals & you are right, a 115 Volt GMAW welder is only capable of 70-75 amps, at best, not nearly enough to fully penetrate 10Ga. plate. The concentrated arc of GTAW and the fact that filler metal is added only when the weld pool is estalished allows for deeper penetration than could be acheived with a GMAW machine of equal amperage.
The intent of the post was not to convince anyone that this is the "by all & be all" of welding machines but rather to inform folks on the forum that, for a small investment, they can have a usefull tool on the bench for small jobs.
Keep in mind that Inverter technology is changing almost daily and machines that cost thousands last year are costing hundreds today. Have you priced a Plasma cutter these days? Brand name machines are available for a fraction of what they were a few years ago. Cooter and I bought a Lincoln P-20 Plasma at performance World for $700 taxes in, last week.
The other day I was working on the Roadster and needed to weld a few small parts for the door handle mechanism. I live about 8 miles from the shop where Cooter & I do our car building. A 2 minute job took over an hour to get done as all I have in my garage is a 300 amp Miller "stick" machine.
I've always been an advocate of the same adage....you get what you pay for!!! and reccomend buying the best you can afford.
Didn't you ever buy an off-brand item that turned out to be an excellent product?? Some 40 years ago, I bought a "Challenger" ratchet/socket set for less money than a Craftsman or Mastecraft would have cost. Whenever I need a 3/8 drive, that's the one I look for.
In any case, I'm getting off my pulpit now and all I wanted to do was to share information.
Cheers, as well,
Mike
 
Mike,
why would you think that this is "Off-topic". I noticed the ad for the inverter and thopught "Yea and it'll be a piece of crap". But here you are saying it welds!!! Have you tried any aluminum?? I'd like to have the ability to weld aluminum in my shop. The closest aluminum welder is clear across town!
 
While were on the subject of welding....
I'm looking around at tig machines. Was wondering what some of you guys have and what you think of your machines?
Heres a list of what I've been reading about....
Miller Econotig

Hobart Tigmate

Dynasty 200 DX

Lincoln Precision Tig 225

Do any of you have any of these? Or something close? And they're gooder?!
I've read that the Lincoln is really good and somewhat easy to use. I'm looking for something that I can weld some steal with. But maybe down the road weld aluminum too.

-Shiny
 
Shiny said:
While were on the subject of welding....
I'm looking around at tig machines. Was wondering what some of you guys have and what you think of your machines?
Heres a list of what I've been reading about....
Miller Econotig

Hobart Tigmate

Dynasty 200 DX

Lincoln Precision Tig 225

Do any of you have any of these? Or something close? And they're gooder?!
I've read that the Lincoln is really good and somewhat easy to use. I'm looking for something that I can weld some steal with. But maybe down the road weld aluminum too.

-Shiny
Click to expand...
Shiny,
All the machines you mention are all Brand Name machines. It would depend on what you want to do and what you want to spend.
I've used the Dynasty 200 and it is an awesome machine. Not so easy to use for a beginner, because of all the features, EG: when set on AC for aluminum, you can adjust the aperage separately for both sides of the Sine wave as well as the "arc-on" time for either the Positive side or the Negative, on a percentage basis. My personal machine at the shop is a Lincoln 175 Square Wave. It is very easy to use, choose the current & polarity and set the amperage and you're away!! At the College I use a Lincoln 255 Square Wave and a Miller Dynasty 350.
It depends on your budget as well. 15 years ago, my square wave cost $3000.00. For that kind of money today, you can buy a lot more machine. The Miller Dynasty costs less than that with more features.
Rochie,
To TIG weld aluminum, your power source needs to have AC output with Constant High freaquency. Because aluminum is such a "heat sink" you also need 240 Volts in to give you about 180 amps of welding power. This comment is based on having to weld 1/4" aluminum plate such as for brackets, ect. If you're looking at welding .060/.080 aluminum then a pulse feature is really nice.
Mike
 
Rochie said:
Mike,
why would you think that this is "Off-topic". I noticed the ad for the inverter and thopught "Yea and it'll be a piece of crap". But here you are saying it welds!!! Have you tried any aluminum?? I'd like to have the ability to weld aluminum in my shop. The closest aluminum welder is clear across town!
Click to expand...
Wayne,
Further to your post, I had no problem doing a full penetration groove weld on 1/8 plate with the CTC machine and at only 75% of capacity! I'm going to play with it a little more today and I'm sure I can weld 3/16 plate with a small "edge prep". I was at Praxair today to buy another cylinder of Argon and they had a Miller Maxstar there, same capacity (100 amps) for a lot more $$$$. I don't know about the longevity of this machine, but then, it's only for occasional small jobs at home.
Mike
 
Oldman said:
Rodder,
I'm a licenced journeyman welder with over 45 years in the trade. My main GTAW power source is a Lincoln 175 Square wave. I have a Lincoln 180 GMAW machine as well. GTAW & GMAW are two different animals & you are right, a 115 Volt GMAW welder is only capable of 70-75 amps, at best, not nearly enough to fully penetrate 10Ga. plate. The concentrated arc of GTAW and the fact that filler metal is added only when the weld pool is estalished allows for deeper penetration than could be acheived with a GMAW machine of equal amperage.
The intent of the post was not to convince anyone that this is the "by all & be all" of welding machines but rather to inform folks on the forum that, for a small investment, they can have a usefull tool on the bench for small jobs.
Keep in mind that Inverter technology is changing almost daily and machines that cost thousands last year are costing hundreds today. Have you priced a Plasma cutter these days? Brand name machines are available for a fraction of what they were a few years ago. Cooter and I bought a Lincoln P-20 Plasma at performance World for $700 taxes in, last week.
The other day I was working on the Roadster and needed to weld a few small parts for the door handle mechanism. I live about 8 miles from the shop where Cooter & I do our car building. A 2 minute job took over an hour to get done as all I have in my garage is a 300 amp Miller "stick" machine.
I've always been an advocate of the same adage....you get what you pay for!!! and reccomend buying the best you can afford.
Didn't you ever buy an off-brand item that turned out to be an excellent product?? Some 40 years ago, I bought a "Challenger" ratchet/socket set for less money than a Craftsman or Mastecraft would have cost. Whenever I need a 3/8 drive, that's the one I look for.
In any case, I'm getting off my pulpit now and all I wanted to do was to share information.
Cheers, as well,
Mike
Click to expand...

We have a good topic going here. Mike your input on this is great, and you obviously have a lot of experience to give a qualified review on the machine.
I have indeed purchased off brand and economy priced items with varied results. The best of such was a band saw that I bought at Princess auto. I paid $225.00 for it on sale, and compared to $350- $500 saws that other outlets had it has been pretty good. Of course I would never use it on a day to day basis in a fab shop, but for my home shop and the limited use it's fine.
It is amazing how modern technology has brought the price of goods down to an affordable rate. Once again great topic. Pete.:cool:
 
Rodder
I don't think it's modern technology as much as it is the Chinese coping everything that has brought prices down. I bought a Miller 180A 220V mig last year out of Indianapolis shipped to Port Huron Mi. for $700. Competition have anything to do with that???
 
Rochie said:
Rodder
I don't think it's modern technology as much as it is the Chinese coping everything that has brought prices down. I bought a Miller 180A 220V mig last year out of Indianapolis shipped to Port Huron Mi. for $700. Competition have anything to do with that???
Click to expand...

Thats so true
 
Oldman is that in a sort of brief case size carry box with a handle on it.

If so some of the guys where I used to work turned up one day with this thing and I just said neat tool box mate and the guy showed me the welder, it's real handy when they have to work on the top of bulk tanks etc, he gave me a demo and I was impressed to say the least, Duty cycle in some cases you don't need a big duty cycle anyway because it is not like you are welding non stop, you usually have to stop to move or whatever anyway. I am also a welder by trade and sold welders and welding equipment and there are some very good cheaper welders out there for the farmer/handy man.

Sounds like you got a good deal to me.
 
The machine in question (CTC 58-8034) is, as you might expect, manufactured "off-shore", much like the computer your reading this on.
The company that manufatures it, and private brands it as Mastercraft for CTC is Hugong Welder. This company has relations with Miller and now I believe, Lincoln.
While I cant say for sure, I would expect that some of Millers and Lincolns products are in fact manufactured by Hugong.
This is however not a small company newly started to copy western welder design..they have been around a long time.
Also, this welder in not on sale this week,( back to 499.99) however most stores will, if asked, honour the sale price the week after

Mike

http://www.hugongwelds.com/

58-8034.jpg
 
shifter said:
The machine in question (CTC 58-8034) is, as you might expect, manufactured "off-shore", much like the computer your reading this on.
The company that manufatures it, and private brands it as Mastercraft for CTC is Hugong Welder. This company has relations with Miller and now I believe, Lincoln.
While I cant say for sure, I would expect that some of Millers and Lincolns products are in fact manufactured by Hugong.
This is however not a small company newly started to copy western welder design..they have been around a long time.
Also, this welder in not on sale this week,( back to 499.99) however most stores will, if asked, honour the sale price the week after

Mike

http://www.hugongwelds.com/

58-8034.jpg
Click to expand...

Shifter,
Thanks for the research and for shedding some light on this product. Your info answers John's question, as well. Thanks again,
Mike
 
We picked one up today:cool: Should have regulator in the next day or two and an Argon bottle. Can't wait. Haven't tigged for a couple of years but it'll be fun playing again. I'll letcha all know how it goes. What a deal, $280 for a tig, yeefrickinhaw!
Mike thanks again for posting this filling me in on your insight/ expertise! Let us know how you made out playing around with it more too.

-Shiny
 
53chevyply said:
With my shop already outfitted with a Miller mig and a Hobart plasma, I am seriously looking at a TIG.
Click to expand...

Good morning 53,
I think that the one feature I would recommend having on a T.I.G. machine for the inexperienced user, is the "lift start" system. This allows you to actually touch the tungsten at the spot you wish to begin the weld. When you lift your torch, the arc is started, and you commence welding. The "scratch start" method is, or can be, hard to master, and a little contamination of the tungsten occurs at every scratch start. There are many features available on the new machines, and for what it's worth, I would recommend either Miller or Lincoln.

Bgbkwndo.
 
Bgbkwndo said:
Good morning 53,
I think that the one feature I would recommend having on a T.I.G. machine for the inexperienced user, is the "lift start" system. This allows you to actually touch the tungsten at the spot you wish to begin the weld. When you lift your torch, the arc is started, and you commence welding. The "scratch start" method is, or can be, hard to master, and a little contamination of the tungsten occurs at every scratch start. There are many features available on the new machines, and for what it's worth, I would recommend either Miller or Lincoln.

Bgbkwndo.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt, The best of all worlds, as far a GTAW power sources go, is a Brand name machine capable of both DC & AC welding currents and having high frequency capability. All the bases are covered.
TO do a proper "Lift start" , a remote pedal is required and the technique is this:Set the amerage to above what you feel you will need, say 100 Amps if you think you'll need 80Amps. with the pedal OFF, the tungsten is touched to the work peice, then the pedal is activated approximately half way, (50 amps)
the torch is lifted approx 1/8" and the arc is initiated. Amperage is adjusted as required and welding progesses. As far as scratch starts go, the resulting tungsten inclusion is minimal and is a problem only when doing "Code quality" work.
Anybody who can start a E-7018 electrode, can surely master a scratch start.:D:D
This thread is becoming quite a technical discussion:rolleyes: Getting back to the original thread regarding the CTC machine, even with it's short comings, it's still a good investment for the occasional user or an inexpensive way to get into GTAW.
Mike
 
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